Curse

Aecum · Jan 30, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Windows XP bothers me more and more every day, last week i had to do some magic tricks to be able to remove a nice trojan that channeled all my google search results to porn sites, (fun isnt it),

the only thing keeping me in windows is GW, everything else i do with my computer can be replicated with linux,

NCsoft promised Clients for MAC Os and linux, where are they ?,

i dont want to dual boot every time i want to play GW and i dont want to run GW trough an emulator like Cedega, paying for a game and then having to play it in window mode, being forced to pay more money for the emulator (55 bucks a year for cedega), and plus almost doubling hardware requierments is a joke, plus, i have to trow away my X850XT and but a nvidia card if i want to play guildwars in linux,

do we have to mount a ingame protest or something, gather tons of people in international district ?

Alex Weekes · Jan 30, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

We did not promise clients for Mac or Linux. The only thing that has ever been said with regards Mac/Linux versions is that we would evaluate the possibility of releasing on other platforms. At the current time, I am not aware of any plans to release for another platform.

Aecum · Jan 30, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

ha, sorry, i guess it was a missunderstanding on my part,

anyways, i hear that WOW accounts were banned becuase of running WOW under wine/cedega in linux becuase a modified client was detected, do players running the GW client under the same conditions run in to the same risk ?

Alex Weekes · Jan 30, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aecum

ha, sorry, i guess it was a missunderstanding on my part,

anyways, i hear that WOW accounts were banned becuase of running WOW under wine/cedega in linux becuase a modified client was detected, do players running the GW client under the same conditions run in to the same risk ?

We won't ban you for running on linux using an emulator. Do be aware, however, that we do not support non-Windows environments so if you encounter any issues our support team probably won't be able to assist you.

Lonesamurai · Jan 30, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

On the different OS question Alex, anything new for vista? are there any issues running it so far?

Linux just looks like too much of a hassle and I usually like a challenge

EDIT ~ Bad England speak

Aecum · Jan 30, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

the real question about that would be "is a DX10 patch/upgrade for guildwars in the works?", it campaign 4 going to be DX10 ?

Corinthian · Jan 30, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Just use proper virus protection and get over it. If you get a virus, it's not because of Windows XP, it's because of you.

Mr_Cynical · Jan 30, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aecum

the real question about that would be "is a DX10 patch/upgrade for guildwars in the works?", it campaign 4 going to be DX10 ?

If there is, hopefully Dx8 will still be available. Scalability is one of Guild Wars' strongest points at the moment - you can run it with lots of shinyness on a brand new gaming pc, or at low settings on a laptop that's a couple of years old.

LordKestrel · Jan 31, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I'd like to see an x86 Linux client, because it runs so poorly under Cedega on this box, but it would make more sense for them to release an OS X client first. I know quite a few people who moved to playing Wow from D2, because they could run Wow on their macs. Some of them have expressed interest in GW, but because of the lack of a native client, can't run it.

LifeInfusion · Jan 31, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

The best you will get is running in a Windows XP Pro in a VM ware or Virtual PC setup.

For now, windows xp is fine. Vista sucks because it is a resource hog.

Windows isnt all that bad security-wise if you install a firewall, antivirus, practice sound computing (aka no opening of suspicious attachments before scanning on multiple antiviruses) and do regular backups.

Linux is good (and free/opensource ), but what it is missing is developer support. The world is run by money sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian

Just use proper virus protection and get over it. If you get a virus, it's not because of Windows XP, it's because of you.

Bleh. Hardcore OS users use Linux because windows is a pain to mod up and Linux is more customizable, stable, cheaper, and faster. Not because "Linux doesn't get viruses". Linux gets viruses, it's just that since it is open source the patches get rushed out asap.

aeroclown · Jan 31, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Linux is good (and free/opensource ), but what it is missing is developer support. The world is run by money sadly.

Bleh. Hardcore OS users use Linux because windows is a pain to mod up and Linux is more customizable, stable, cheaper, and faster. Not because "Linux doesn't get viruses". Linux gets viruses, it's just that since it is open source the patches get rushed out asap.

Well that is partly true, yes. Unix and Linux systems also have a different default user configuration which helps to protect the core system architecture unlike windows systems in which Many if not 90% of users are automatically Administrative users. While that doesn't protect all of your data it does ensure that critical components cannot be affected by an out break.

You are however absolutely right viruses and exploits do exists in the Linux world and by part in large because the code is open, however as you have mentioned very often this problems are rectified long before they become mass hysteria.

As for a lack of developer support, that by large depends on the project you choose and its objective. There are as many that are very well supported as there are those that are not. I have worked on several projects targeted toward the Home user base that were almost at times overly supported and we never charged a dime.

Quote:

Windows isnt all that bad security-wise if you install a firewall, antivirus, practice sound computing (aka no opening of suspicious attachments before scanning on multiple antiviruses) and do regular backups.

You are also absolutely right about this, however the sad truth is there are a minority of users who interested in anything but simply having a system that works. Such is the problem across all Platforms currently. Many users are blind to security and safe access practices, and not only blind but choose to continue ti be blind under the assumption that because they don't use an online bank, or make an online purchase, that there is nothing worth a hackers time on their machine. The truth is however if you have a computer and you have an internet connection your computer is worth it regardless of if it is devoid of personal information. Bots, Backdoors, Keyloggers, trojans, spam bots, phishing bots, these don't need anything more then a machine, an internet connection and a root kit.

User could do them self a huge favor by visiting sites like US-Cert and practicing just an ounce of safe access practices.

Nomax · Apr 30, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

My main hard drive (the one with Windows) crashed (the motor stopped spinning). Now all that remain on my computer is Linux. Since yesterday, I try to run Guild Wars with Wine. It worked once at 5fps or so then... nothing. It's really sad because I love Guild Wars. :-(

With the release of Windows Vista, more and more people are thinking of switching to Linux mainly due to Microsoft's habit of screwing users (forcing them to upgrade) every once in a while. The latest thing that prevent them from doing so are the games that run on Windows only.

Please Alex and other folks at NC Soft/ArenaNet, pay attention to this: http://www.petitiononline.com/gwlinux/

Personally, when I buy new software, seeing it's cross-platform is a real plus because I know that it will still run if I change my OS. And today's situation is that buying Microsoft products isn't interesting on the long term. Make your game lasts, make it cross-platform. It's a real added value.

Maybe it's a bit late for Guild Wars but think about it for Guild Wars 2. And please, make use of OpenGL instead of Direct 3D, it will be easier to port to Linux and MacOS X and your customers won't be screwed the day Microsoft decide. And I'm sure some people will buy it just because it runs on Linux (unlike WoW ;-) ).

Please think about it. I'm really sad that there are no current plans for a GW Linux client. I was thinking of purchasing GW2 when it's out but now, I wonder...

Dex · Apr 30, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I don't have anything against a Linux client, but you have to consider the business side of this. It takes a lot of development and QA resources to build and test a new client for a game like GW. They don't charge a monthly fee, so they only get money from their user base once...it's not exponential profitability like monthly fee-products such as WoW. It's cost-effective for Blizzard to make ports for their client because they continue to make money based on subscriptions.

The installed-base of Linux and MacOS compared to Windows is very small. Teeny-tiny even. Realistically it probably doesn't make a lot of financial sense for ArenaNet to worry about making a port for Linux. I really doubt that there's much of a profit margin there considering that the port would be really expensive to produce.

Nomax · Apr 30, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex

The installed-base of Linux and MacOS compared to Windows is very small. Teeny-tiny even. Realistically it probably doesn't make a lot of financial sense for ArenaNet to worry about making a port for Linux. I really doubt that there's much of a profit margin there considering that the port would be really expensive to produce.

You're right of course but unlike Windows, Linux's market share can only grow in the future. So I guess we'll have to wait a couple of years after the release of Guild Wars 2 to see Guild Wars client going open source (with community servers).

Community is the strong point of Linux software development meaning that it doesn't cost you anything since the community takes care of both development and user support. Some Linux development groups works together with companies while being tied to a NDA. So for the company who dare, it can be a great benefit.

scrinner · Apr 30, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Another problem i can see is then streaming of updates to a linux client. And god Ncsoft, if you move away from direct3d im going to be really sad. DX10 Looks so awesome..... Hopefuly Guildwars two will take full advantage of it.

Tahlia Tane · Apr 30, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I think a Linux client will never come because, well I'm not a full expert on this but Guild Wars heavily uses DirectX and that's a no-go in Linux. Also I don't know the relationship between ArenaNet and ATi, but GuildWars.com has the ATi logo so I assume Guild Wars is specially designed to run on ATi cards and getting ATi cars to run properly with full support (for 3D games) = LOL in Linux.

Nomax · May 01, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrinner

Another problem i can see is then streaming of updates to a linux client.

I don't see why... Many Linux software are using this technique without problem...

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrinner

And god Ncsoft, if you move away from direct3d im going to be really sad. DX10 Looks so awesome..... Hopefuly Guildwars two will take full advantage of it.

Won't DirectX 10 be Vista only? Another example of pure MS screw-up. I read that many game dev said they will stick to DirectX 9 for compatibility sake. Many gamers will still use DX9 video cards for quite some time... OpenGL isn't that different to DX, converting a game to the other API isn't that difficult. Some games offer you the possibility to use one or the other as you will. After all, DirectX is MS's version of OpenGL (see history).

Dex · May 01, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tahlia Tane

Also I don't know the relationship between ArenaNet and ATi, but GuildWars.com has the ATi logo so I assume Guild Wars is specially designed to run on ATi cards and getting ATi cars to run properly with full support (for 3D games) = LOL in Linux.

That's simply due to a lack of workable drivers for ATI hardware. That could be fixed. Also, since OpenGL is an open standard there's no reason that the features that DirectX 10 brings to the table couldn't be implemented in OpenGL. To me the real question is, "is it worth their time to do these things?" Right now I believe the answer to that question is "no." Will Linux ever see a significantly larger installed-base? That completely depends on whether or not someone decides to create and market a truly full featured, plug and play, easy to use, vendor-supported Linux implementation that can truly compete with Windows. If that ever happens things may begin to change.

Nomax · May 01, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tahlia Tane

I think a Linux client will never come because, well I'm not a full expert on this but Guild Wars heavily uses DirectX and that's a no-go in Linux.

I never managed to get Guild Wars running on Linux (after all I only tried for 2 days

). Others succeeded using Cedega or Wine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tahlia Tane

Also I don't know the relationship between ArenaNet and ATi, but GuildWars.com has the ATi logo so I assume Guild Wars is specially designed to run on ATi cards and getting ATi cars to run properly with full support (for 3D games) = LOL in Linux.

For ATI, Doom 3 is running as fast as the Windows version on my Radeon X1600 XT but of course, it's an OpenGL game. ATI drivers are getting better but it's a slooooooow process...

Dex · May 01, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomax

Won't DirectX 10 be Vista only? Another example of pure MS screw-up. I read that many game dev said they will stick to DirectX 9 for compatibility sake. Many gamers will still use DX9 video cards for quite some time... OpenGL isn't that different to DX, converting a game to the other API isn't that difficult. Some games offer you the possibility to use one or the other as you will. After all, DirectX is MS's version of OpenGL (see history).

Not sure if there is or not, but consider the possibility that there are technical reasons that DX10 will be Vista-only. I think you're jumping to a conclusion by calling it "pure MS screw-up". I'm not a fan of MS (nor am I a "hater"), but I must admit it gets a bit tiresome that it's so fashionable to bash them. MS does make mistakes and some bad decisions, but nobody else has even attempted to hold the place in the market that they are. I guarantee you that if Apple and (if there were a centralized point of responsibility for) a commercial Linux implementation were in the same position as MS (being "all things for all people" and "a melting pot of 3rd-party products") both of their OSes would have most of the same problems that Windows does. If you want to point out mistakes that MS has made and back up your statements that's fine, they've made plenty, but please have some perspective. MS isn't as bad as people make them out to be. Sure, they don't always make the best decisions or produce the best products, but come on. The type of business they run is completely different from that run by Apple. It's like comparing Apples to......well......Windows....